車架碳纖維材質的問題... - 捷安特
By Lucy
at 2017-06-04T23:15
at 2017-06-04T23:15
Table of Contents
※ 引述《sd5sd6 ( GUNDAM)》之銘言:
: 感謝大家的回覆,本魯受益良多。總結一下之所以各大廠不用超高剛性高性能碳纖維的原
: 因:
: 1. 成本考量,成本效益問題.(故在材料應力較小區可能會混用較低階碳纖維)
: 2. 全部都用超高剛性碳纖維雖有力量傳遞效率卓越的優點,但也伴隨著舒適感和穩定性
: 的喪失,故不採用。
: 3. 使用超高剛性碳纖維雖有可能以相同剛性的情況下有效減低重量,但是因UCI重量限
: 制,對於要拿來比賽用的一級車而言可能多無助益。
: 而能在各大賽事出現曝光對銷售有助益之效(噱頭),加上成本效益考量廠商可能也不
: 願意再做更輕更高性能的車子。
: 另外還有要再強調一下:
: 1.工法 2. 膠合劑 3. 形狀 這些因素理論上都可以在不改變的情況下更換更高性能的碳纖
: 維(k13d2u),讓性能顯著提升。所以只是車廠要不要的問題。
: 2.還是沒辦法理解和接受車廠不標明使用的材料,這才不是什麼商業機密,只是材料,也
: 不是他生產,大家都買的到有什麼好機密的。如果都用高級材料應該會非常積極讓消費
: 者知道吧?(Slogan:使用比捷安特一級車架使用的碳纖維剛性多300%的碳纖維材料,多
: 噱頭阿XD)。不說的動機實在讓人可疑(怕大家笑?不買單?)。至少不標的車我是一定不
: 會買單。
: 3.希望:因碳纖維有材料混合和異方性問題,所以希望車廠都能誠實標明碳纖維車架使
: 用材料和比例,雖然不易定完全等於車架性能,但至少讓大家比較有個底參考,也讓
: 消費者知道自己買了些什麼東西。
: P.S 碳纖維我認為是曖昧複雜的材料,側向強度又只有縱向的10%不到,下一台車我
: 會買64鈦車。
看完這個,我覺得這只是一個科學宅的執著。
你會在意某個IC元件是用哪邊的矽礦砂還是稀土嗎?
鮪魚一定要日本海的真鮪魚?
牛一定要在喜馬拉雅山,喝著千年冰川水,吃及其灌溉過的大草原牧草?
老大,有些事情根本沒必要這樣搞!
一台碳纖維車,不同部位,不同堆層,膠合的布料都不同。
所謂的側向強度又只有縱向的10%不到.....更是好笑。
自行車受力都不是單向的,當然去支撐碳纖維車架的碳纖維布也貼在不同的方向。
64鈦車,難道就沒有材料的問題嗎?
哪家的管?
合金比例?
抽管的厚薄?
幾抽管?
焊接的溫度,焊藥焊條的種類?
哪個師傅焊接的?
所謂的複雜,就是你不是業內人士,非研發職,你真的不用鑽研。
曖昧??
感情曖昧會讓人受委屈,可是自行車材料不會。
自行車運動,UCI對於車子有很嚴格的限制。
要讓自行車運動回歸到人與人的競爭,不是器材的軍備競賽。
用最好的材料,做最好的車,很好。
問題來了.....
人類POWER輸出能有多少?
汽機車,飛機的輸出能力有多少?
拿一堆高級航太材料,用在兩隻腿在踩的自行車上,真的有必要嗎?
不標碳纖維布成分和比例,當成自己的商業機密也沒什麼。
告訴你使用了XX好棒棒碳纖維布,也不保證車好騎。
碳纖維車不標示,你不買?
所以鈦合金車,鋁車,鋼管車......是有標示逆??
這樣什麼車都不用買啦?
車是用來騎的,不是要來談的。
要當鍵盤車手,我在PTT說第二,沒人敢說第一。
有本事就騎出來不同材料的差異再來講,
不是還沒騎,看材料就在那邊543。
自行車測試,很多性能盲測都騎不出來。
等你騎出來,我等你。
--
事情懂得多
自然有方法~~~~~
--
: 感謝大家的回覆,本魯受益良多。總結一下之所以各大廠不用超高剛性高性能碳纖維的原
: 因:
: 1. 成本考量,成本效益問題.(故在材料應力較小區可能會混用較低階碳纖維)
: 2. 全部都用超高剛性碳纖維雖有力量傳遞效率卓越的優點,但也伴隨著舒適感和穩定性
: 的喪失,故不採用。
: 3. 使用超高剛性碳纖維雖有可能以相同剛性的情況下有效減低重量,但是因UCI重量限
: 制,對於要拿來比賽用的一級車而言可能多無助益。
: 而能在各大賽事出現曝光對銷售有助益之效(噱頭),加上成本效益考量廠商可能也不
: 願意再做更輕更高性能的車子。
: 另外還有要再強調一下:
: 1.工法 2. 膠合劑 3. 形狀 這些因素理論上都可以在不改變的情況下更換更高性能的碳纖
: 維(k13d2u),讓性能顯著提升。所以只是車廠要不要的問題。
: 2.還是沒辦法理解和接受車廠不標明使用的材料,這才不是什麼商業機密,只是材料,也
: 不是他生產,大家都買的到有什麼好機密的。如果都用高級材料應該會非常積極讓消費
: 者知道吧?(Slogan:使用比捷安特一級車架使用的碳纖維剛性多300%的碳纖維材料,多
: 噱頭阿XD)。不說的動機實在讓人可疑(怕大家笑?不買單?)。至少不標的車我是一定不
: 會買單。
: 3.希望:因碳纖維有材料混合和異方性問題,所以希望車廠都能誠實標明碳纖維車架使
: 用材料和比例,雖然不易定完全等於車架性能,但至少讓大家比較有個底參考,也讓
: 消費者知道自己買了些什麼東西。
: P.S 碳纖維我認為是曖昧複雜的材料,側向強度又只有縱向的10%不到,下一台車我
: 會買64鈦車。
看完這個,我覺得這只是一個科學宅的執著。
你會在意某個IC元件是用哪邊的矽礦砂還是稀土嗎?
鮪魚一定要日本海的真鮪魚?
牛一定要在喜馬拉雅山,喝著千年冰川水,吃及其灌溉過的大草原牧草?
老大,有些事情根本沒必要這樣搞!
一台碳纖維車,不同部位,不同堆層,膠合的布料都不同。
所謂的側向強度又只有縱向的10%不到.....更是好笑。
自行車受力都不是單向的,當然去支撐碳纖維車架的碳纖維布也貼在不同的方向。
64鈦車,難道就沒有材料的問題嗎?
哪家的管?
合金比例?
抽管的厚薄?
幾抽管?
焊接的溫度,焊藥焊條的種類?
哪個師傅焊接的?
所謂的複雜,就是你不是業內人士,非研發職,你真的不用鑽研。
曖昧??
感情曖昧會讓人受委屈,可是自行車材料不會。
自行車運動,UCI對於車子有很嚴格的限制。
要讓自行車運動回歸到人與人的競爭,不是器材的軍備競賽。
用最好的材料,做最好的車,很好。
問題來了.....
人類POWER輸出能有多少?
汽機車,飛機的輸出能力有多少?
拿一堆高級航太材料,用在兩隻腿在踩的自行車上,真的有必要嗎?
不標碳纖維布成分和比例,當成自己的商業機密也沒什麼。
告訴你使用了XX好棒棒碳纖維布,也不保證車好騎。
碳纖維車不標示,你不買?
所以鈦合金車,鋁車,鋼管車......是有標示逆??
這樣什麼車都不用買啦?
車是用來騎的,不是要來談的。
要當鍵盤車手,我在PTT說第二,沒人敢說第一。
有本事就騎出來不同材料的差異再來講,
不是還沒騎,看材料就在那邊543。
自行車測試,很多性能盲測都騎不出來。
等你騎出來,我等你。
--
事情懂得多
自然有方法~~~~~
--
Tags:
捷安特
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