良輝傳動開箱!淺談扭力&馬力 峰值配傳動 - 機車
By Edith
at 2022-07-22T01:44
at 2022-07-22T01:44
Table of Contents
→ nowitzkixd: 我是覺得 如果認為不對1.165.185.139 07/21 18:13
→ nowitzkixd: 可以提出你覺得應該要怎麼算1.165.185.139 07/21 18:13
→ nowitzkixd: 就像我一直強調的 我就大學兩堂物理1.165.185.139 07/21 18:15
→ nowitzkixd: 如果你有更多的理論 絕對歡迎提出1.165.185.139 07/21 18:16
我告訴你啦,我也不是專家,我也認為我說的東西會漏洞百出
但是我有自覺,因為我不是專家,我不會知道個皮毛就裝作自己是專家
我前一篇文就說了,現實中的摩擦力非常複雜
在不同的外在環境下都不同,不是這樣一個公式就可以算出來的
這個公式固然沒有錯,但是他有光滑平面跟剛體兩個條件
現實中很少同時達到這兩個條件的
然後你抱著這個公式來質疑我沒有理論,不知道怎麼算
我就說了很複雜,我怎麼知道怎麼算
"但我知道你用這個簡化公式說你減少接觸面積沒影響絕對是錯的"
你真有興趣你可以查一下研究,而不是拿個Youtuber的言論當令箭
給你幾篇經典paper
Huang, J., Krousgrill, C. M., & Bajaj, A. K. (2006). Modeling of automotive
drum brakes for squeal and parameter sensitivity analysis. Journal of Sound
and Vibration, 289(1-2), 245-263.
這篇是在闡述設計鼓煞穩定性的研究,其中有提到煞車阻力跟有關的參數
主要是有限元分析
BTW現在工業設計幾乎都會跑有限元分析
因為真實世界的計算的的非常複雜,不是什麼東西都好算,數值分析真的那麼屌早就沒有I
IHS NCAP這種機構了
這篇paper裡面的參數如下:
https://i.imgur.com/wRSTvOG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ApxXD97.jpg
你看有幾種參數?
模擬結果是不是有差異?
你真的以為只要考慮摩擦係數跟正向力?
物體的彈性變形什麼都不用考慮?會不會太天真?
你說大學兩堂物理?
你要不要回去問你教授是不是真的那麼簡單?
另一篇:
Archard, J. F. (1957). Elastic deformation and the laws of friction.
Proceedings of the royal society of London. Series A. Mathematical and
physical sciences, 243(1233), 190-205.
這篇在講彈性應變跟摩擦力的關係
裡面有張實驗結果如下
https://i.imgur.com/uaJGm6v.jpg
結果顯示摩擦係數回隨著荷重改變
接觸面積也會隨著荷重改變
既然會改變,就不是你公式中的定值
人家結論也說了,他的結論與你的公式並不衝突,但有前題
The idea that the real areas of contact between sliding surfaces are forined
by elastic deformation of the contacting protuberances has been examined. It h
as
shown that this assumption is not inconsistent with Amontons's law of friction
.
materials with a large elastic range, such as Perspex, the deformationis
primarily elastic, but Amontons's law is obeyed except when the load is highly
concentrated. Despite the greater chances of plastic flow,the same
conclusion is apply to carefully preparedor well runinmetal
surfaces rubbing under conditions where the damage is small.
這篇是65年前的研究,已經初步指出Amontons's law的限制,他的實驗基本上也是使用光
滑平面,之後學界在各領域也不斷研究相關議題
然後是比較近期頂刊的研究
Mo, Y., Turner, K. T., & Szlufarska, I. (2009). Friction laws at the
nanoscale. Nature, 457(7233), 1116-1119.
這研究是用微觀角度檢視摩擦力的影響
實驗結果為下
https://i.imgur.com/EuNXlG6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/09vgxfU.jpg
你看結果顯示摩擦力隨著接觸面非線性
然後紅框的結果顯示微觀尺度下實際接觸面積5倍,摩擦力就是5倍,當然我推測巨觀下差
異不會那麼大
以上研究可能都有錯誤,懷疑數據是一種美德
但你不能抱著高中就是教這個公式,他一定沒錯的心態,甚至你連高中這個公式都沒看完
全,把前提都忽略,現實中不是這樣弄的
--
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